Comments on Aberdeener: Ms. Demarest’s Theory of (Zero) Accountability

Believe me, this teacher does work her fingers to ...

2009-02-06T06:46:00.000-05:00

Believe me, this teacher does work her fingers to the bone. She has more programs going on in her class for the kids than the school has. She encourages the kids in every way, tries to boos their self-esteem, and really actually wants them to learn.

As a parent, I couldn't be happier with this teacher. And believe me, I've had teachers in the past that I have emphatically questioned and disliked for the way they've treated one of my kids. I'm not one to easily jump on the teacher-loving bandwagon.

Actually tho poster that accursed parents of being...

2009-02-06T04:47:00.000-05:00

Actually tho poster that accursed parents of being "collisional " with the board may be correct. From reading many of these posts it seems that many folks would rather point fingers than work them to the bone.

If you are going to compare scores between distric...

2009-02-06T04:37:00.000-05:00

If you are going to compare scores between districts make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Perhaps the teacher is not in "collusion" with the...

2009-02-05T21:35:00.000-05:00

Perhaps the teacher is not in "collusion" with the Board, but just understands that it can work against students to switch how they are learning math mid-stream? Or maybe she's read up on Everyday Math and just doesn't think it's in the best interests of the kids?

Not all teachers are Union flag waving, picketing crazies. Some of them actually want to teach our kids, do the best job they can, and just make a fair wage for it.

Shocking, isn't it?

Thanks to the parent who took the time to describe...

2009-02-05T19:54:00.000-05:00

Thanks to the parent who took the time to describe his/her child's learning experience with Everyday Math. I believe this is the spiral method I've read about.

However, I still question whether students of Everyday Math are being adequately trained for the rigors of calculus and hardcore sciences that require strong foundations in basic mathematics.

If you're correct, the students' achievement scores should be reflected in international exams but they're not.

Does anyone know of a district that has been using Everyday Math for several years? Maybe we could look at their scores.

I'm sorry - but does anyone get that these tea...

2009-02-05T19:35:00.000-05:00

I'm sorry - but does anyone get that these teachers rarely want to teach "something new"?

How effective can any program be if teachers stonewall it.

They - in a general sense - will not do anything that is not specifically described in their contract - evidenced by the picketing of selective board members and their public support of Rappaport.

UNION RULES!

For any teacher to tell a parent that they "hate" any aspect of a BOE approved curriculum is at least unprofessional & at most collisional with the board factions that exist in these two towns.

There have been thousands of dollars spent on professional development that NEVER get applied to the classroom. Teachers go the workshops, read magazines, get their certificate for their 100 hours & laugh at us taxpayers.

Some of them actually live in our towns & pay the taxes that pay for this nonsense. How sad is that?

LOL, and the neener neener is on you. That's fine...

2009-02-05T17:00:00.000-05:00

LOL, and the neener neener is on you. That's fine.

I'm not going to further discuss what my child's teacher is doing or not doing with someone who is not in the room with them, or a school official who knows what's "wrong" with what the teacher is doing.

Have a great day.

Anonymous,
I never spoke condecending to you, i...

2009-02-05T15:38:00.000-05:00

Anonymous,
I never spoke condecending to you, if you took it that way, thats on you.

If your child's teacher is refusing to let them use the traditional method when they are doing word problems for example, then I believe she is wrong. We were all told at the Everyday Math Parents Orientation, that children were allowed to use the method they were most comfortable with.
Now, if she must use "partial sums" method when the "partial sums" method is being taught, then, that is understandable.

I interpert it as, the children are taught many methods at arriving at the same answer, and which ever method works best for them or for the situation, ie: mental math or complex word problem, they use what they are comfortable with and what is appropriate.

Aberdeener,
The children are timed from the sec...

2009-02-05T15:08:00.000-05:00

Aberdeener,
The children are timed from the second and third grade, depending on if they are in Enrichment or not, on single digit multiplication. They call it minute math. In fourth grade, my child is still timed. They are constantly being told to memorize their math facts.

Then they go on to additional work, (as you say a little of everything, but not all at the same time. They still concentrate on one section at a time). I get a report every couple of weeks tracking the progress. The grading system is "B" Begining, "D" Developing, and "S" Secure in the material. I don't have a problem with it at all.

It takes a little to get used to it, but I like it. I find the biggest fear only with the parents that don't feel comfortable with the new method.

Then, later on the material is taught again. And the supposedly the level of mastery goes up to "S" Secure. I think we need to at least give it one full year before we throw stones.

I do not refuse to look it up. I did not say that...

2009-02-05T14:54:00.000-05:00

I do not refuse to look it up. I did not say that I didn't use the book, or that I do not help her with her homework. I said I don't know how to do the Everyday Math as it comes home. Of course I look it up in the book and help her try to figure it out.

I wouldn't let my child suffer over my dislike for the type of math they are teaching.

As for "Grow up", my "neener neener" comment was made because of my dislike for being condescended to, as if I was too dumb to figure out how to use the book or to know the "advantages" of Everyday Math.

Let me assure you that I have looked into it, and as with many other people, drew my own conclusions as to whether I think it is the best program for the children in this district.

And yes, it is the only form of math being taught in my child's class, and they have been told only to use the new form of math. Apparently our children are not in the same class. And no, my child did not struggle with math before this year, nor is she struggling with it this year. She has merely come home confused on occasion when something new is introduced that she already new how to do the "old" way.

Is your child doing drills of increasing difficult...

2009-02-05T13:03:00.000-05:00

Is your child doing drills of increasing difficulty? I know teenagers who struggle with the multiplication table.

When I was in 6th grade, we were timed how quickly we could do single digit multiplication. We were expected to do 100 questions in under two minutes. The better kids did it under 100 seconds.

There was no time to calculate. You had to have the multiplication table perfectly memorized.

You can argue whether that's needed but I don't know of a single math-based professional who hasn't memorized the multiplication table.

Everyday Math focuses on projects, not drills. Children are learning a little of everything but mastering nothing.

If parents disagree, let me know and we can put it to the test.

I should have directed my comments above to the Ab...

2009-02-05T12:49:00.000-05:00

I should have directed my comments above to the Aberdeener's concerns about Everyday Math, not the parent who refuses to look up something new to benefit their child. Grow up!

Agree, I don't like the misuse of calculators eith...

2009-02-05T12:44:00.000-05:00

Agree, I don't like the misuse of calculators either. It is one of my pet peeves.

However, my child in 4th grade at Lloyd Road has not used them yet, at least not for homework. Some of the work that has been done to this point is measuring angles with protractors, performing complicated word problems, plotting points on a graph, probability of outcomes, fractions, addition and subtraction of decimals, several multiplication methods and division methods. All concepts that are used in the higher level middle and HS courses.

Yes, I find the lattice multiplication confusing, but it is not the only method they teach for multiplication.

Back to calculators, I think it is the misuse of them. But that is where the teacher and/or parent needs to supervise and make sure calculators are used when appropriate. At the high school level when you are working with powers and exponents and the child already knows multiplication, I don't see the problem with calculators for that part of the work, if the child only uses calculators for multiplication.
In elementary school, children need to be taught how to use calculators, the same way they need to be taught how to use computers, but not rely on calculators for the basics.

My child has been told only to do the math using t...

2009-02-05T12:38:00.000-05:00

My child has been told only to do the math using the Everyday Math system - and they have to show their work. They are not allowed to use the "old" system.

I do not believe that I should have to look up how to do multiplication or division to explain it to my child. I am fully capable of doing so, though, thanks.

Also, my child's teacher is a great teacher - very enthusiastic, very experienced, who loves teaching and takes a real personal interest in her class students. I do not for a second believe that she would let her personal feelings toward the math program get in the way of teaching.

I know of many, many towns and schools who do NOT use Everyday Math and have students who do excellent work. In fact, my older children did not use this system, and went on to do very well in their math classes.

And I can hate the math program if I want to. Neener neener.

Any program that allows (not to mention encourages...

2009-02-05T11:32:00.000-05:00

Any program that allows (not to mention encourages) calculators for basic elementary math is a terrible program.

Singapore Math is based upon drills of increasing difficulty until basic calculations and methodologies become almost instinctive.

I'm a member, though not active participant, of the New Jersey Coalition for World Class Math. You may want to look at their site for more information.

As for any suggestion that Everyday Math adequately prepares our students for advanced mathematics, I have yet to witness a single example of a leading mathematician, physicist, engineer, architect, financier, or even bookie, using Everyday Math techniques.

What are you basing your conclusion of "terrible" ...

2009-02-05T11:15:00.000-05:00

What are you basing your conclusion of "terrible" on? I personally know of other towns and students doing extremely well in their higher level, high honor, middle school and high school math courses, and their elementary school preperation was Everyday Math. Yes, the parents complained at first, but the students took to it and did well.

I don't know of Singpore Math, please explain it.

I'm for whatever works and prepares our students the best.

Everyday Math is a terrible program and I'm very s...

2009-02-05T09:40:00.000-05:00

Everyday Math is a terrible program and I'm very sorry that Dr. O'Malley introduced it to our district.

I have spoken to Dr. O'Malley about Singapore Math and he is considering introducing it for grades 6-8. I'm hoping he'll reconsider and introduce it to all elementary grade levels.

Maybe the problem starts with the teacher who tell...

2009-02-05T09:37:00.000-05:00

Maybe the problem starts with the teacher who tells how tells you privately SHE HATES IT. First of all, where is the teacher /parent professionalism on her part. Secondly, perhaps she doesn't understand how to teach it properly. And thirdly, maybe her attitude toward the material is showing through in her teaching.

My child is at Lloyd Road also, and has also had to learn some new methods for doing the math. But at no time was he instructed to forget methods he previously learned. Everyday Math gives those children that don't understand the traditional methods, a simpler way of doing the math because it breaks the math problem down into smaller pieces. It gives those children who never had a problem with the traditional method the ability to manipulate the numbers in their mind, and inevitability teaches them to handle more complex math.
It actually teaches math the way most people do it in their minds everyday.

At times it has also taken me a few minutes to understand the new method, but if you use the Student Reference Book that every kid has at home, I'm guessing most parents can figure it out. Everyday Math introduces many higher levels of math such as algerbra and geometry earlier. But it doesn't introduce them at a high school level, it introduces them at an elementary school level.

I think you need to look at it again from a different perspective. Perhaps your childs teacher isn't your best source.

Ugh! Everyday Math! Horrible, horrible, horrible...

2009-02-05T09:01:00.000-05:00

Ugh! Everyday Math! Horrible, horrible, horrible!

I have a child in Lloyd road who has had to unlearn all the math that she's been taught and try to use this drawn out, confusing system. Even her teacher has told me privately that she HATES it.

Not only is it confusing to my child, when she needs help with her math problems, I have no idea how to help her the "right" way.

Everyday Math is a huge FAIL.

I dont get it. Can someone explain it to me like I...

2009-02-05T07:54:00.000-05:00

I dont get it. Can someone explain it to me like I'm three? When hve we become a society that allows people to do what ever they want and nothing goes unpunished? I have had two childern graduate in the district and four more a still in the district. It totally amazes me that our high school does not perpare our kids for the real world. I know that most of responsiblity is ours as parents but lets face it some childern need outside help. It amazes me that alot of these kids can not fill out a job application or write a check, know what to wear on a interview. These are life skills that are very important and no matter what your sat scores are you are going to have a hard time in life. This new math program drives me crazy. What is the reason behind it? Why make something harder than it needs to be? I have three kids at the elem level and one in the middle school and I have noticed that when they have spelling words or vocabulary then are not required to know the meaning of the words. How can they use these words in a correct sentence if they don't even know the meaning? How can they do well on state tests? I'm sorry if it seems like I am rambling on but it just fustrates me. We pay high taxes toward the schools and they seem to be failing. Yes I know that as a parent we are to check homework and make sure that they are doing what they are suppose to be doing in school. When does the school and the district take responsbilty?

So, did anyone read the Independent yet? There is ...

2009-02-04T23:42:00.000-05:00

So, did anyone read the Independent yet? There is finally an article published in at least one paper which highlights the inept, incompetent and apparently unconscious administration/BOE (barza & co.) who allowed an unqualified person hold a position which paid $126,720 last year not including benefits...in case you haven't guessed, Ms. Helen Rappaport is the one in question.

The one who Bruce Quinn allowed to stay in her job even after he knew she wasn't qualified, the BOE demoted her in 2003 and then lied about her title to the County for 5 years so they wouldn't get caught.

Funny how, no matter the # of times the Aberdeener questions them, this BOE has no answer for how in the hell they let that go. Dr. O'Malley ends up having to answer for them...yet he doesn't own any of this mess.

When are the voters/taxpayers of this town going to care enough about the fraud and theft of their money and vote these crooks out?? 18 years, 16 years ??? Some of us haven't lived here that long yet we are paying for their arrogance and power hungry insanity! Can any of us afford to let them have the chance to do it for three more years? The answer is NO!

STOP THE MADNESS! Vote these idiots out and give some new blood a chance!

Actually, to correct my above post, they redistric...

2009-02-03T20:53:00.000-05:00

Actually, to correct my above post, they redistricting would not affect the AYP because the numbers are looked at per grade level, so there still would be the same numbers per grade, actually less in each subgroup--oops

I posted the potential cost of a specialized readi...

2009-02-03T20:31:00.000-05:00

I posted the potential cost of a specialized reading program tutorial, and yes I was referring to both special ed and general ed students. The specific program I was referring to targets at-risk readers, kids who are struggling to read at grade level or who are far below grade level, regardless of whether they are classified. A training the likes of which I referred to would equip the person with the requisite skills, but the training would probably work best with a retired teacher. However,it could also be implemented by a dedicated professional. There are similar types of programs available for teaching other areas as well, including math, although I couldn't speak to their cost.
The point is, there would be people willing to do it, if we could find the money.

Here is an interesting tidbit--
Schools who don't make AYP in a particular subgroup for multiple years are flagged by the state, required to offer supplemental instruction, etc. (Supplemental instruction is in fact after school or before school instruction.) Usually that would happen if the school didn't make AYP three years in a row, in a particular subgroup.
All three elementary schools have made AYP though-- ask how! There are not enough kids in each subgroup to be counted! When the district moved the 4th and 5th grades to Lloyd Rd, it would seem the numbers in the subgroups went below the required number that the state looks at. I wonder if they knew that when they did it?

Have your son try the tutorial, it might be with a...

2009-02-03T17:20:00.000-05:00

Have your son try the tutorial, it might be with a different teacher than his usual teacher. My child had a terrible teacher last year, (I don't think she was even renewed), and went to the tutorial twice a week and thankfully learned everything from the other teachers. If I remember correctly, it was a different teacher for each day, and they were very good.

My child has a math teacher this year who still, m...

2009-02-03T17:07:00.000-05:00

My child has a math teacher this year who still, midway through the year, calls my child by the wrong name. That isn't exactly conducive to him wanting to spend extra time with her.