Friday, October 16, 2009

More Politics as Usual

This was to be the year of change. All of Aberdeen’s incumbent representatives, from the school board to town hall, had chosen to not seek re-election. The township had ended the past practice of special land deals and the Democratic Party stopped paying “consulting fees” to a sitting councilman. There was a proposed ordinance to limit pay-to-play. Then the Democratic Party nominated two outstanding gentlemen, Councilman Tagliarini and Public Works Director Jimmy Lauro, both longtime residents with stellar reputations and a deep history of community service.

That was then. This is now.

Bill Shenton, the titular chief of the Aberdeen Democratic Executive Committee is also Aberdeen’s Planning Board Chairman. It should be no surprise then that all four democratic candidates have also served on the planning board, including Cannon and Montone whose recent appointments were likely made to buff their resumes prior to running for the town council.

Shenton has also gone neck deep into pay-to-play. Rather than run as one group, the four democrats are running as separate candidates to circumvent campaign contribution disclosure requirements. Look closely – except for Lauro, who can’t accept CME money directly, they’ve all collected the identical amounts. That means each contributor had to write 3 or 4 checks, each check for either $100, $200, or $300. These are not small contributions from local residents.

Between the individual candidates and the local party, we’re talking about $40,000 for this campaign. We pay CME over a million dollars a year. Ever wonder why none of the other major engineering firms compete for our business? Ever wonder why none of our professional appointments ever face real competition? Now you know.

This week’s Independent quotes Councilman Tagliarini as saying “The 2009 budget is $577,000 less than 2008, a 4 percent decrease in spending.” How Orwellian. Not funding an under funded pension is called a “decrease in spending”. That’s like charging everything to your credit card, making only the minimum payments, and then crowing about a “decrease in spending”. That is, until the bill comes due.

Last week, Greg Cannon, the youngest and web savviest of the candidates, launched AberdeenDemocrats.com. The launch coincided with the township’s newsletter touting the democratic candidates. On the website, the Democrats claim a commitment to “sound financial management”. A two-year tax increase of 16% during a recession and under funding a pension is "sound financial management"?

Then there’s this beauty – “It is paramount that Aberdeen's state-mandated COAH obligations be fairly distributed throughout the municipality, without concentrating them in any one area of town.” Is that what they call 132 COAH units in Cliffwood and 90 COAH units on Church St.?

”Finally, and most importantly, our candidates . . . pledge to keep residents informed and aware of the issues facing them.”

You’ve got to be kidding. Until last week, the township had not posted any town council minutes since January. As for the planning and zoning boards, those minutes have never been posted. As a school board member, whose responsibility includes oversight of Huskievision, our only local television channel, I had no idea the township was negotiating a 10-year contract with Cablevision.

As for the just released minutes, here are a couple of doosies.

2007’s financial audit wasn’t presented until January, 2009. The findings include:
“One item has a significant deficiency – fixed assets. The current fund had a slight decrease in surplus . . . collection rate was 98 ½ %. Water and sewer funds are self liquidating. Both funds need to be monitored. The comments and recommendations of the 2007 Audit are Fixed Assets has not been updated since 2003, Corrective Action Plan states CFO will reconcile by May, 2009. Several bank reconciliations were not in agreement with the general ledger, CFO states she will make changes in the preparation of bank reconciliations and she will be responsible for the monitoring. General capital fund reflects negative cash balances, which means you spent money you haven't raised.”

But not to worry because “Compared to other municipalities the Township does an excellent job.” Hey, you want to be auditor, this is what you gotta say or they’ll find someone who will.

In February, CME recommended “an increase of $382,125.50 for the storm drainage improvements and road reconstruction of Idlewild Lane for a revised Contract amount of $2,325,069.07.” Are these projects ever completed under budget?

In March, we had the following scenario –
Councilman Tagliarini made a motion to adjourn to executive session, seconded by Councilman Drapkin and unanimously concurred by Council.
The meeting reconvened with the same members in attendance except Councilman Drapkin.
Councilman Raymond made a motion to introduce Resolution No. 2009-53, Appointing Silver Oaks as Redeveloper for the Aberdeen Commerce and Transportation Center Development, and move its adoption. Seconded by Deputy Mayor Gumbs.

So, an executive session for the special purpose of reappointing a convicted felon who cost Matawan hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills to be the redeveloper for the transit village.

Then there’s this cute quote from May. – “Councilman Vinci asked are the [library board] members we appoint to the board looking out for Aberdeen.” No comment.

As for the Anchor Glass development – “Mr. Criscuolo stated Anchor Glass is being used as a warehouse. Approximately, 30,000 watermelons were stored in Anchor Glass, and 10,000 began to rot. They were issued notices of violation. We have been watching them very closely.” Yeah, real close.

And this little tidbit in July – “Councilman Perry stated for 7 years, 7 months he was under the assumption that anything that came before Council passed through legal review and that is not the case.“

They say the more things change, the more they stay the same. Tagliarini and Lauro are both good men. I fervently hope they remain good men.
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66 comments:

Anonymous said...

Did I hear right that the Republicans want to get rid of the road reconstruction program? There are alot of old roads in town that need reconstruction that would not be good.

Anonymous said...

Comment #1 is a typical Democratic scare tactic. More Kauff BULLSHIT.

Mr. Cannon did you not go to work today? Nothing else better to do then lie on the computer?

OBVIOUSLY !

Tom Aljian said...

As I have stated many times in the past, proper maintenance of infrastructure including roads and utlity systems is of the highest importance. We have no plans to get rid of the road reconstruction program. Conversersely, we do have definate plans to ensure the money spent on the road program gets the town and its residents the highest value for the money, as opposed to simply funneling tax dollars to professionals which support the party politics in town. It all comes down to responsible spending.

Anonymous said...

So Tom...

To save so much money, do you intend on doing the engineering work yourself, or will Republican-supporter T&M Associates take care of it?

Indeed, Minutolo has enlisted the most corrupt organization around, the Monmouth County Republicans, to help your campaign. And we all know where they get the money they're spending on your campaign from:

http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2005/0824/Front_page/009.html

Did you read that article, Tom? That's not conjecture, speculation or accusations... that's actual arrests. The kind that have not and will never occur in Aberdeen, despite the musings of your alter-ego, THE TRUTH...

So Tom, you should be very careful when you throw stones from that big glass mansion you're now living in...

Also, Tom, word around town is that your strongest candidate, Vail, is running for the two year term because he plans to move out of town and cannot serve four years. Now, that's dedication to our community of "people not politics"... I mean why else would the only Republican candidate who was involved in an association outside of Watchung run for only a two year term? But give him credit though, Vail is at least smart enough to not throw stones about Cannon's, in actuality, legitimate residency...

Finally, I'd be more concerned with the school budget if I were you. I mean you pay those property taxes, but don't even send your kids to the local schools. No wonder why you and Mr. Warren get along so well... You're both idealogues, but too pompous to send your kids to the schools or actually get involved with the people of Aberdeen. Now that St. Joseph's is closing though, will you bus your kids back to Watchung, Tom?

In conclusion, Tom, please refrain from placing your illegible signs at intersections and on public property. I recognize that you have no supporters to accept them for their lawns, but you're just wasting the sticky-fingered County Republicans' blood money...

Anonymous said...

Hey Tom,

Me again. Wanted to make sure you got the link to where you're campaign's blood money is coming from:

http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2005/0824/Front_page/009.html

Anonymous said...

Seems like the Aberdeener is the only one allowed to post full links to damaging information on this blog:

So, click here:
http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2005/0824/

Click: Front Page

Scroll down to "Six Months" Article

Aberdeener said...

Anybody can post "clickable" links in the comments section. You just have to insert the hyperlink html tags.

Anonymous said...

Never thought I'd say this, but thanks Aberdeener for allowing me to expose the Aberdeen Republicans' corruption.

Anonymous said...

Those type of arrests will occur in Aberdeen if Aljian and company are elected. They'll have to repay their corrupt County masters for getting them elected...

Anonymous said...

Thomas Aljian i see in the paper that you stated that you were the president and officer of the Watchung Rescue Squad (member for 15 years) and worked as a volunteer EMT-P on the Muhlenberg Hospital Mobil Intensive Care Unit, Mercy-6.

WHY HAVENT YOU VOLUNTEERED FOR ABERDEEN?

Anonymous said...

All the Anon comments from Cannon are hilarious. Blood money! I love it! Aberdeener predicts the Dems will spend $40,000 this year on their campaign. In 2007 the Dems spent $53,000. In 2005 the Dems spent $35,000. In 2003 the Dems spent $41,000. I would say that there is blood all around - all of the taxpayers being bled to death.

Norm said...

As far as the Aberdeen Republicans are concerned, I agree, they have nothing to offer.

As for the county Republicans, you are way off base, Boss D'Amico and friends are the worst thing to happen to Monmouth County in a long time, if they win, the Dems will make Larrison's corruption look like childs play.

Anonymous said...

It's very telling that Cannon or Drapkin, posting as Anonymous, are posting links to a 4 year old news story about the Monmouth Cty republicans -- while the ABERDEEN DEMS have raised $40,000, at least, this year from their pay-to-play friends.

Aberdeen Democrats = Pay-to-Play

Tagliarini and Lauro lost any honor they ever had

Anonymous said...

Maybe some of the Dem's money is being used to buy computers in Florida.

Maybe some is being used to buy Drapkin a new hairpiece.

Kiss My Kauff said...

Grow up boys. It is not the money they spend on the campaign it is the money that Kauff and Company pocket. Millions go to CME and lets just say 10% gets split amongst Kauff and the others. No wonder Vinci can put that big addition on his house . Then again he did get to buy property for a $1.00 each for two parcels. With NO RESTRICTIONS don't forget. The again he is a PAID consultant for the Democrats. You can't make this stuff up. Can you Norm. You piece of garbage. Bring it on Norm. We hear you started an investigation as to who we are. Bring it on Norm. You will be #1 on the list to testify. The 5th will be your best friend. Scum like you always take the 5th. Lets just say the professional fees annually are $2,000,000.00. Kauff and the boys give a token gift to Vic and the Freehold crew. Then Kauff and his local henchmen can split the rest. Kauff has to be sitting on $1.5M for all of his hard work on behalf of the taxpayers. You SUCK Kauff!
Bring it on Normy. The lawsuits and things to be exposed would be well worth it. First you on the stand Normy, then the CFO, Town Managers that are not in jail of course, Police Chiefs and every officer, then every employee ever since the D's took over. The list goes on and on and on and ...

BRING IT ON! PLEASE !

BRING IT ON NORMY !

WE DARE YOU !

Normy come on what are you afraid of? Your scum keep saying there is only three or four of us.

Sure Normy you believe that one ?

I await your response authored by Owen, Fred, Cannon and you other scum so beholding to Normy.

You suck too !

Anonymous said...

Hairpiece? What hairpiece?

Pat said...

I think the Dems should have to explain the warehouse full of watermelons. That's hilarious! No wonder the current foursome of candidates have avoided associating their campaign with the DEMOCRATIC PARTY anywhere on their Prepared to Lead brochure or other advertisements. At Aberdeen Day, their DEMOCRATIC PARTY sign was down in the grass at their feet, just under the table. They've recently courted my part of Cliffwood Beach by putting a layer of tar on my street. Unfortunately, they evened the street with the curb, so storm water comes right up to my feet as I get out of the car. Just another display of how the Dems have ignored CB and would continue to do so if elected. I say, "Free the factory of watermelons!"

Anonymous said...

Why is the Anonynous Democratic supporter posting a 2005 article that doesn't even mention Aberdeen and spreading false rumors about the Republicans and the road program?

Are the Democrats that despirate that they need to lie? Grow up and discuss issues. How about a debate like Aljian suggested.

Duke said...

"Those type of arrests will occur in Aberdeen if Aljian and company are elected."

Yes. After the Republicans uncover years of Democrat corruption, watch all the Dems do the perp walk.

Tom Aljian said...

I could not agree with the above anon 11:28 post more.

If any readers know Fred Tagliarini personally, please ask him when he will be responding to our requests to debate. I have sent him numerous letters and, as of yet, have received no reply. The public has a right to hear from the candidates and make an informed choice.

Fred, I earnestly await your reply so the public can we can hear your plans and mine with regard to the future of our community.

Anonymous said...

Tom Aljian, why don't you ask Fred yourself at the next council meeting? Maybe because you are to busy worried about the light out on your street, bring something to the table! Challenge him at the next meeting, challenge the whole town council. Call the press and tell them you are going to ask some tough questions, that you are running as mayor. Time is ticking, get some balls and ask the questions!

Anonymous said...

Hey Tom - Answer the questions or stay off of here

Your brochure says a Republican administration would bring residents into the township's long-range strategic capital planning process. Are you talking about bringing representatives from the community into the government's process or bringing the government's process to the public? I'm curious how you see this working, especially given the low attendance by the public at council and school board meetings here.
I was concerned about Township efforts to concentrate COAH housing on a section of County Road near Route 35. Your brochure suggests that you would focus on "honest and affordable housing," which sounds good but really doesn't make any sense. What would you do to resolve the state mandate to provide affordable housing in the Township?
Your development plans center on the old Anchor Glass plant and the train station, but you don't say what you want to accomplish or in what time frame. I've read that these train station development plans are stalled across the region and turning over the old glass plant seems an unlikely proposition in the current economic environment. Why do you think you can close these deals when the Dems have struggled with them? Do you have new ideas or do you think you are simply better qualified?
Your brochure puts holding the line on taxes as your highest priority. That worries a Democrat like me, who wants to be sure the town functions with both fiscal and humanitarian sensibilities. Convince me that you'd be a caring steward of the community and not just blindly seek ratables and cut costs to please homeowners and businesses.

What would you do to develop the greater Cliffwood Avenue/Route 35 intersection? I'm concerned about the old drug store, the vacant lot where Burlew's Pizzeria once stood, the empty storefronts on the south side of Rte 35, Moore's Bar, and the old palette warehouse. Will you add that as a development focus?

What are your thoughts on merging the Township with Matawan Borough? What do you see as the pros and cons of Gov Corzine's initiative? Would you support the program that is looking into regionalizing waste management?

Would you work with the Chamber of Commerce to make Aberdeen Day a more commercially successful event? What specific things would you do to help promote the Township beyond what is already being done?

You mention a senior center and Freneau as development issues. Could you provide more details?

Tagliarini is in hiding -- What rhymes with Hussy? said...

I agree with the post saying that Aljian should not only ask the debate question at the next meeting -- but then proceed to ask Tagliarini the questions that would be asked in a debate.

Only one more council meeting before the election - Please don't let Tag"IstoScaredtoDebate"arini hide behind Sobel and $40,000 worth of advertising financed by election fraud and pay-to-play.

Tag's lack of willingness to debate exposes his lack of character.

Anonymous said...

Democrats in Aberdeen = 40,000 pounds of rotten watermelon

Anonymous said...

Democrats in Aberdeen = Pay-To-Play

Anonymous said...

Got Kauff? Tagliarini and Lauro do!

Anonymous said...

Is something rotten in township hall? Yeah, 40,000 lbs of rotten watermelon financed by Sobel and Kauff's and Tagliarini's best friends.

Anonymous said...

Why do the Democrats in Aberdeen insist on anointing convicted felons as developers for the train station?

Anonymous said...

Got the Democcrat flyer the other day-

what a joke!!

The real question is who gave them directions to CLiffwood Beach before the picture was taken? Unreal. Montone, Greggy, and Freddy havent stepped on that side of town since the pirate ship was taken down.


What were they looking at in the distance? How good Keyport and Union Beach beach fronts look? And how we have failed the Clffwood Beach area the 12 years the Dems have been in power?

What an opportunistic photo op. Why not travel to the rainforest in Brazil and find an orphan baby to adopt and take a pic of that too

Anonymous said...

Is there any pension for the town council members?

Anonymous said...

Yes, there is a pension for township council members. The actual pension payment is based on number of years of service and average of three years' highest salary. For most councilmembers this is a small number. If they go on to work elsewhere in the pension system they get credited for all of the years in Aberdeen at the higher rate of their next job.

Councilman Raymond, for example, will have the higher salary from his appointed job at the DMV leveraged by his 12 years of service in Aberdeen. Lauro on the other hand will leverage his recently inflated salary at township hall by the extra years he may serve on council. Vinci will collect a second pension because his current pension from the Police and Fire Pension System is separate from the pension system he is in as a councilman.

All in all, a good question to ask and a good part of the explanation as to why our pension system is underfunded.

Anonymous said...

Is it underfunded, or are people just scamming and double dipping and playing the system!!
They shouldn't be allowed to tag on years on town council to a later higher paying state job and get those past years as credit to a much higher paying salary. And therefore greater pension amount, for life!
It's all a game and I hope Christie wins and makes needed changes to the system in Trenton.

Mytowntoo said...

HOW CAN WE GET TO MEET ALL THESE CANDIDATES???
Face-to-face!!!!
I don't know anything about them and what is in the newspapers is probably scripted.
Speaking with different people in the town, they have no idea anything about them.
Many of the other towns around us are or have had "Meet the Candidate" events and the public could ask their own questions.
What about us here in ABERDEEN?????
Don't we have the right to find out what we want to know about them????
How can we make this happen before the elections?????
I called the township and the clerk said she didn't think this has ever been done. I cannot believe that.
So come on, Tagliarini, Alijian and any other independent candidates...step up to the plate and come out to meet us !!! Let us ask you what you are going to do for us!!!
And Council candidates..You Too!!!!
WE NEED TO SPEAK WITH YOU AS WELL.

Anonymous said...

I agree, we deserve to have a "meet the candidates" event. Aljian, you say you want a debate, even if the republicans are the only ones to show, at least we'd get to hear from you. And if the dems don't show, that alone speaks about them.

GRRRREEEEEAAAAATTTTT ! said...

Sobel, Perry, Raymond and anyone else who puts in ten years would be vested in the pension. To what amount who knows? That may be why they are fleeing the council. That is unless of course they have seen the error of their ways and are now to be known as cooperating witnesses for the federal authorities. Wouldn't that be GRRRRRRRREEEAAAATTT?

Anonymous said...

Tagliarini can't do a meet & greet.

Kauff won't let him out on his own.

They will consider a talent show: Tagliarini will sit on Kauff's lap and move his lips while Kauff talks.

Tagliarini: Can you say p_ss_?

Anonymous said...

Tuesday night at the town council meeting all the Dems will be there and the Repub's have all been showing up. After the meeting meet with the Repub's, ask them questions.

osectiongrampa said...

At least the R's will have answers. It would be hard to ask the D's since all of them would not be able to speak at the same time since. You see Norm is not that good at being a ventriloquist for all of them simultaneously. I would ask Mayor Sobel if there is anything he would have liked to have done differently?

Like maybe not have Kauffs hand up his ass making him a marionette for all of these years.

My neighbor the Mayor has been such a disappointment.

How is the house sale going Dave?

Anonymous said...

None of the democratic candidates including tagliarini will be at the council meeting

Anonymous said...

Where will the Democrat candidates be, in hiding?

Perhaps they’ll be at another photo shoot where they will all have their backs turned from the town, as they look out to the wild blue yonder?

Anonymous said...

to say the dems will not be there is just a lie.

Anonymous said...

They are looking at the nice beach fronts of Keyport and Union Beach. Standing on the crap we call CLiffwood Beach, promising to fix it.

What a disgrace!!!! OPPORTUNISTIC!

County Road voting Republican said...

That would be the beach they pull out every year and say is the Jewel of Aberdeen. They never polish the jewel they just campaign on the beach and its beauty to make us think they will do something with it. They won't! Ask yourself why no candidates come from the beach. Then again we have had representations on both sides who did nothing about the beach. Well they did put in the volleyball court this year. Lets see that would be about $300.00 in improvements. Thanks so much?

Gene near the beach said...

I have seen people talk about the beach a few times on here.

It is totally a resource we do not use.

KEYPORT, UB, and OLD BRIDGE put money and state grant money into use and made their places respectable.

And you are right, it is talked about every election and NOTHING is done. A 300 dollar volleyball court which was put up and not touched again- but for a photo op.

The beach offers so much for ALL of Aberdeens residents to use. It is an untapped resource. UNTAPPED, except for CHEESY Dem photos - C'MON!!! Looking to the water? Who's cheeseball idea was that?

Anonymous said...

FYI
July 2007, Corzine passed legislation prohibiting any new Council Members from belonging to the pension system. All candidates running both Rep and Dem are not eligible. Only members elected before July 2007 could pay into PERS.

Anonymous said...

Good thing Vinci, Gumbs, and Raymond got on Council before that pension rule change. Otherwise we couldn't benefit from their version of public service.

Is the Kauff Puppet show performing tonight?

Anonymous said...

So, have any of the candidates decided to let us see them full-frontal view so we can ask questions???
I think we really deserve to have them debate and to have that good old 'town hall' forum.

What's the deal guys???
If you are scared....say you are scared!!

Tom Aljian said...

I could not agree more with the posters regarding the need for an open public forum to discuss the issues. To that end, I again ask Mr. Tagliarini to join me in an open public debate last night on Wednesday, October 28. I am informed he told the Independent reporter he would get back to me, whatever that means.

Whether Mr. Tagliarini joins us or not, Mike Vail, Sheilah Balavram, Anthony Garaguso and I will be at the Aberdeen-Matawan Library in Wednesday, October 28 from 7:00 to 9:00 pm for a Meet and Greet. I encourage all residents to join us. We will be happy to field any questions and discuss our platform in an open and public meeting. I hope Mr. Tagliarini will join us.

On the phone this morning ..... said...

Tagliarini: Norm, they're backing me into a corner. They wan't to debate.

Kauff: We have money for mailings and signs, we don't need to risk a debate. Damn, they can ask questions in one of those.

Tagliarini: But they'll think I'm a weenie.

Kauff: You are a weenie. That's how I like my people.

Anonymous said...

That might have been one of the funniest posts on this site, ever!!

Paul Rinear said...

Anyone who posts anonymously on this website is a downright coward and should not be taken seriously. If they were whistleblowers that would be different, but apparently they are just shills. Any man not willing to stand behind his word falls far short of respectability.

--Paul Rinear

Aberdeener said...

Paul,

I'd have to disagree. Some are cowards and others are prudent. I'd rather hear someone speak anonymously than remain silent.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the Aberdeener. The Shadow knows. Paul, why do you think superheros where masks?

Paul Rinear said...

There are no superheroes here, just regular human beings. If your job is at stake, it may make sense for you to remain anonymous, however many here really are cowards.

Anonymous said...

Paul Rinear, maybe you should spend more time complaining about Aberdeen instead of wasting your in Keyport's business! Help out Aberdeen.

Paul Rinear said...

Hey Anonymous person who made the comment about me and Keyport - you must be on my mailing list and receive the news reports that I forward from Michael Lane as a courtesy. For your information, one of the problems in New Jersey is a lack or regional planning and this "home rule" structure which lets every municipalty go its own way. A case in point is my own neighborhood in Aberdeen which is very near the border or Marlboro and Old Bridge. Planned development for the area that was presented at each town downplayed the impact by ignoring similar development in the neighboring towns that would border the applicants plan and triple the impact. That is just one example of many. I have attended and participated in Council meetings in Aberdeen, Matawan, Marlboro, Old Bridge, Keyport and Hazlet. If you are ever at a meeting, introduce yourself instead of remaining anonymous out of fear.

Anonymous said...

Paul - Who does the "Green" Party support in the upcoming election?

Anonymous said...

Fear you? You are a troll, I am glad you have so much free time on your hands.

Paul Rinear said...

I have no free time on my hands. Every day from approximately 8am until 2 am is filled with a wide variety of activities and responsibilities. Life is great, unless one takes everything too seriously! By the way, I will not resort to personal attacks or name-calling. It makes no sense.

The Monmouth County Green Party is endorsing independent Sean Dunne for Assembly. The Aberdeen Green Party is strategizing for the next election and is not endorsing anyone for Mayor or Council. Individual members are endorsing whoever they want. I myself am endorsing the challengers. A mixed Council is best for the citizenry.

Anonymous said...

Funny Paul, I think you started the name calling by calling anon's "cowards", no?

Anonymous said...

Paul,

I wouldn't introduce myself to you at any meeting. I am scared of you. I'm remaining anonymous because you're a kook and I don't want you to have any invitation to talk to me...

Anonymous said...

That makes two of us. Funny how he say's he wouldn't name call and yet he started it.

Paul Rinear said...

Sorry you took it personally, but that happens.

Anonymous said...

Paul you are so witty I can't understand why you didn't get elected two years ago?

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, third parties tend to become spoilers in a two-party system. The Greens kept the D's in power two years ago and now their silence in the face of continued over-development is astounding.

Anonymous said...

Paul is to busy to worry about overdevlopment. What kind of lame plan do you have for the next election, do us all a favor and stay out of it!